Former NJ Governor Chris Christie and former DOJ spokesperson Sarah Isgur ripped the MAGA backlash at President Donald Trump and Attorney General Pam Bondi over the DOJ memo stating Jeffrey Epstein killed himself and had no secret “client list.”

On the latest This Week from ABC News, Christie and Isgur joined host Jon Karl to discuss the major shake-up on the MAGA right over the Epstein files, the latest development of which was a Truth Social post from Trump that, possibly for the first time ever, was ratioed on his own platform. The guests hit Trump for encouraging conspiracy theories, and the MAGA base for buying into them.

Starting with Christie, Karl asked his panelists about the controversy within MAGA and the potential fallout for Trump, including whether the “boys” and “gals” among the MAGA base whom Trump directly addressed in his defense of Bondi would now fall in line.

Christie first answered that Trump is learning “when you start the fire, sometimes you can’t put it out,” arguing that Trump fueled conspiracy theories about Democrats and Epstein and is now facing the consequences.

Christie also said that there’s no chance Bondi wasn’t following Trump’s specific instructions in the release of the memo.

“She was instructed by the White House that we’re not releasing this stuff. And that’s why he’s defending her,” he said.

Isgur echoed the point, saying that, while in the past the media and Democrats have repeatedly been mistaken about whether issues such as abortion could break through his protective “candy coating” and drive a wedge between Trump and his base, this time is different.

“That hard candy coating, the people who really go out there day-to-day to defend whatever Donald Trump says, they’re not policy people. They’re not pro-life. They actually aren’t even that big on immigration,” Isgur said. “They’re really big on this stuff, though — JFK, Epstein, the moon landing, chemtrails.”

And on the negative reactions at Truth Social to Trump’s post on Bondi, Isgur added, “Well, Jon, you had Santa’s elves telling kids that Santa doesn’t exist, and they’re having a really hard time with that.”

Isgur also pointed out that there remain many unaddressed questions with regard to the Epstein investigation. “I’m surprised that, again, these people who made a lot of money and careers and got their current jobs based on this conspiracy theory aren’t telling us any of those answers that they could have found,” she said.

Christie interjected with a dig on Trump’s appointees, saying, “You know what we’re finding out, Jon? Running the government is a hell of a lot tougher than running a podcast.”

KARL:
Let me get right to the president’s very lengthy statement overnight defending Pam Bondi because it starts by saying, “What’s going on with my boys and in some cases gals?” They’re all going after Attorney General Pam Bondi, who’s doing a fantastic job. We’re on team MAGA. I don’t like what’s happening.”

So, are those boys and gals of team MAGA going to go along with this?

CHRISTIE: Well, look, what Donald Trump is learning is when you start the fire, sometimes you can’t put it out. Now, he started this Epstein fire during the campaign and prior to that by alleging that this was all some, you know, Democratic plot, that he was perhaps murdered by former Democratic officeholders, that there were a lot of Democrats who had been down to Jeffrey Epstein’s island and all the rest.

He used that to fire his own base, and he was going to get to the bottom of it, and he was going to release it because he’s in — absolutely in favor of transparency. Well, now you get into the job and you realize — you know, maybe I don’t want to do that.

And let’s be clear about this: Pam Bondi — there’s no chance, in my opinion, that Pam Bondi made this decision on her own. No chance. She was instructed by the White House that we’re not releasing this stuff. And that’s why he’s defending her.

And now he’s at cross purposes though because when you bring in people like Kash Patel and Dan Bongino who are true believers in what Trump was saying prior to getting elected, they’re saying, “Wait a second. We came here to do the transparency thing.”

KARL: It seems to me that it wasn’t so much Trump himself that was fueling the conspiracy theories. It was the people very close to him, his biggest supporters, people like Kash Patel and like Dan Bongino.

CHRISTIE: But, Jon, wait a second. We cannot let the president off that easily.

He benefited directly from it. He fueled it. He encouraged it. And he certainly didn’t stop it.

So, you know, part of what bothers me in this context is that Donald Trump gets a pass. Oh, it wasn’t him. It was somebody else. He took these people who were doing exactly what you just said and put them in charge of the people on the front line of protecting the American people from crime and terrorism and counterintelligence operations.

He encouraged this and by putting them in those positions, he supported the work they were doing.

KARL: Well, let me play what Trump said Tuesday at his cabinet meeting. When he’s there at the cabinet meeting, Pam Bondi is just a couple seats away from him and a reporter tries to ask Bondi about all of this, and Trump intervenes and says this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy’s been talked about for years. You’re asking — we have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things, and are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: Okay. So, Sarah, he said it’s unbelievable and people shouldn’t be talking about this. That was Tuesday.

Yet all week his people have been talking about it, people like Steve Bannon, Megyn Kelly, Charlie Kirk. These are — these are prominent figures in his movement who have been talking relentlessly about this.

ISGUR: We’ve heard plenty of times with folks trying to determine whether this is where the MAGA base abandons Trump and things like that. And I think those have all been pretty — pretty big misunderstandings of how that hard candy coating around Donald Trump works.

You know, for instance, we saw that conversation happen around the pro-life movement that Donald Trump was abandoning pro-life principles and that maybe this would break up the MAGA movement.

But that hard candy coating, the people who really go out there day-to-day to defend whatever Donald Trump says, they’re not policy people. They’re not pro-life. They actually aren’t even that big on immigration.

They’re really big on this stuff, though — JFK, Epstein, the moon landing, chemtrails.

So, this actually does have a real potential to influence whether Donald Trump has that protection between him and his base, that — those translators. And that’s what you’re seeing this week is, those translators are taking a really long time to come back to Donald Trump, longer than I think we’ve seen to date.

KARL: I mean, I’ll tell you this, if you look at his Truth Social post, again, this very long Truth Social post, the responses — and who knows, they could be trolls, whatever, but are almost universally negative. People saying that they’re not buying it. They’re not ready to move on.

When —

ISGUR: Well, Jon, you had Santa’s elves telling kids that Santa doesn’t exist, and they’re having a really hard time with that.

KARL: So, let me — let me then play a little bit more from Kash Patel. We heard in the open. This was Kash Patel. He went on Joe Rogan’s podcast in June and was asked about all of this, and here’s what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR (June 6, 2025): The problem is there’s been, like, 15 years of people coming in and creating fictions about this that doesn’t exist. Where is the videotape of an Epstein island, x, y and z committing these frauds? Why haven’t you given it to us? Do you really think I wouldn’t give that to you if it existed? I’m working my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off, along with the leadership at the bureau and DOJ, to give you what we’re allowed to give you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: So, again, let me ask the fundamental question, are — is the base going to buy it? You have the president saying nothing to see here. You have Kash Patel, who had been fanning this stuff directly saying, look, I mean, I would tell you. I got nothing.

CHRISTIE: Well, look, I’ll tell you, I’ll answer his question.

KARL: Yes.

CHRISTIE: Yes, I don’t believe you give it if the president of the United States ordered you not to, because you haven’t shown any independence from the president of the United States in your entire career. So, while he’s asking me to believe something, like, would — could you possibly believe me, Kash Patel, wouldn’t do it, even if the president of the United States told me not to?

Look, the president made it very clear in the video we just saw before Patel’s, I’m done with this. I don’t want to talk about it anymore.

Donald Trump never gives, or very rarely gives, direct orders. What he does is, he does something like that, which is sending the signal out to everybody else, enough, stop. And so, I’ll answer Kash Patel’s question. Yes, I don’t believe you would give it to us if, in fact, the president of the United States told you not to and your direct boss, the attorney general of the United States, has ordered you not to. And that’s where we are.

KARL: So, Sarah, let me ask you really what is the big question. They have released — they released, like, 11 hours of videotape of — of Epstein’s cell. It seems pretty well established that he, in fact, killed himself. I guess there are 60 seconds that are missing that has been attributed to a glitch. Well — so, the big question is, is this now case closed on all of those conspiracy theories?

ISGUR: This was always strange to me because it depends what you mean by conspiracy theories. In terms of whether Epstein killed himself or this list that there’s just no evidence ever existed, yes, I mean I hope those hundreds of FBI agents can go now, do some national security work, real stuff.

KARL: Yes.

CHRISTIE: Right. Right.

KARL: Yes.

ISGUR: However, like, where did Epstein’s money come from? Where did the money now go? I mean, I guess I do still have questions about that. I’m surprised that, again, these people who made a lot of money and careers and got their current jobs based on this conspiracy theory aren’t telling us any of those answers that they could have found. At the same time, hiding behind, you know, saying, well, we’re not going to release, for instance, videos of minors or grand jury material that’s sealed by the court. Like, OK, but this was your bread and butter, literally.

CHRISTIE: And you know what we’re finding out, Jon? Running the government is a hell of a lot tougher than running a podcast.

KARL: That’s — that’s actually (INAUDIBLE) —

CHRISTIE: Running the government is a hell of a lot tougher than writing a children’s book.

KARL: And I guess the big question now, is Dan Bongino going to leave and resign and go back to his podcast, or is he going to stay deputy director?

CHRISTIE: He doesn’t like his job anyway. Come on.

Watch the clip above via ABC News.

The post ‘They’re Not Pro-Life – They’re Into Chemtrails’: ABC Panel Rips MAGA Over Epstein List Uproar first appeared on Mediaite.

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