Ex-presidential niece Mary Trump told MSNBC host Nicolle Wallace that ex-President Donald Trump’s escalating legal jeopardy only “increases his street cred” with followers.

Mary was a guest on Friday’s edition of Deadline: White House, to promote her partnership with E. Jean Carroll — whom a jury says Trump sexually abused — on a serialized romance novel called The Italian Lesson.

Wallace asked Mary what voters can expect from Trump’s new campaign, and asked Carroll what her verdict has meant for other women:

NICOLLE WALLACE: We are so happy to be back with e.g. Carol and Mary Trump. Mary, the book deals with it is delicious, as E. Jean said, but there’s some darkness. And light is all human life, and the human experience showcases not so Donald Trump. And a lot of what we know about his pathological darkness. We know from your books and the opportunities we’ve had to interview you. Barack I don’t even know the adjective to use, but but there is something so extremely deviant about this new run for the presidency. I mean, Make America Great Again was a throwback. It was racist. It was a dog whistle. But “I am your retribution” is like a Hollywood monster mash. What should the country be prepared for as he prepares to run a third time?

MARY TRUMP: You know, Nicolle, when I was I was thinking about being on the show today. I just kept thinking, you know, (French phrase). We continue to remain mired in this loop where I think a significant minority of people and the entirety of the Republican Party either think something’s going to shift or that they’re somehow going to escape unscathed. And neither of those things is true. The darkness has always been there. But again, the more he gets away with, the darker it gets, the more he’s enabled, the darker it gets. And let’s face it, I don’t know that it matters that he is, to some degree, finally being held to account, because I think on the one hand, that increases his street cred for some of his followers. And on the other hand, regardless, he will be, unless something happens, the Republican nominee for president of the United States in 2024.

NICOLLE WALLACE: Mary, what is he, what do you think he means when he says I am your retribution?

MARY TRUMP: He means he is his retribution because as has been well-established and as you well know, he doesn’t care about anybody else. This is all his grievance, his pain, his need to fight back. And, you know, with all of the cards in his back pocket, by the way, you know, with all of the help he needs, it is his desire to undo whatever damage he believes has been done to him. So this is a person and I it’s shocking to me in some ways that we still need to have this conversation, but we do. I was saying this in 2020, there’s no bottom. There is nothing he won’t stoop to. There is nothing he won’t reach for. And if it means bringing everybody down with him, if he thinks he’s going down, that’s what’s going to happen.

NICOLLE WALLACE: The only person to lay a glove on him in the legal arena is you. And again, I know from your attorney that there’s nothing you can talk about in that arena, but I wonder what you’ve heard from other victims of sexual abuse or defamation that fuels you to sort of continue to try to reach and work toward the light in these creative projects and whether there’s any sort of full circle experience in hearing from other victims of sexual abuse who watched your trial and watched how it was covered and watched how it ended.

E. JEAN CARROLL: Nicolle, you would be amazed, not only me, but Robbie Kaplan, my brilliant attorney. We had received an avalanche of letters from across the country. And Robbie and I are right now talking about creating a new platform and making it possible for women to come forward. The very act of women coming forward brings power to other women. It’s the very act of speaking up. And Robbie and I are in serious talks about giving women a platform and giving them legal help. I can’t go into it, but it there is there is a. There is help on the way and by some of the smartest minds in America. And it’s going to be brilliant and it is stunning. When you see women speaking up, how much power it gives to other women, just because I spoke up this little bit. Now, hundreds of women are right into us and say, what can they do and how can they speak up? And we’ve seen the repercussions. Already the woman in California sued Cosby, the woman in New York. It is happening across the country. I would say this is not a downer. This is an upper. And it’s we are a. We are rising up. And the voices, the stories, Nicolle, are breathtaking. They’re just breathtaking. Women across the country, they’re gathering courage. And I just got to say, watch out.

Watch above via Deadline: White House.

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